So you exclusively fish for native steelhead. Are U better than the meatheads?

[cuttstosteelies]

I've had a few conversations with some fellow "fishermen" and we were wondering where the "wild fish is the only fish" mentality comes from.  To all you folks that sit on your high horse (most of you ), what makes you a better "steelheader" than the dude that plops on a rock at the nearest hatchery hole enticing brats?  Seriously.  Here's my take:
1. Hatchery fish are "harder" to catch.  No question.
2. I have caught thousands of wild fish.  While I love the size and agressiveness of these specimens, they are easy to catch.  Plain and simple. when you've got a cabin that you grew up in 10 miles from the Hoh, wild fish are(were) fairly easy to come by
3. I'll take a wild fish over a hatchery fish any day as far as battle is concerned.  However, I've yet to encounter a wild fish (same poundage mind you) that fought like a summer run hatchery fish of the same size..... What gives?
4. By targeting wild fish you, whether you live and breathe by CandR of wild fish, are resulting in the decline of native fish by CandR mortality.  While the percentage is incredibly low, your "targeting" strategies have killed fish. Yep, they have.  what makes you better than the "law abiding" plunker that kills his one fish a year down at Barlows?  Seriously.....  Rationalize that one.

Yeah, I'm stirring the pot.  I like it.  Haven't done it in some time and it's due! 
Fellas give me grief all the time about the ponds, and I love it.  I will catch fish no matter what the scenario.  Low, high, wild, hatch, whatever.  However, at the end of the day, I like to fight the fish, eat the fish, invite friends over to partake in the fish, and go to bed.  Why are dudes like me (that specifically target hatchery fish) the lower end of the "status list" as it has evolved on BB's these days..
Until then, see you on the water.  I'm BB'd out.  Cuttstosteelies is officially "retired"........

[dardevle]

Obviously you haven't hooked a wild summer, now that's the sh*t!

Cutts, from past reports, you can't say that you haven't targeted your fair share of wild fish. 

I will catch fish no matter what the scenario

I like the hunt yet some prefer to know they are fishing over fish and that is the crutch of the terminal zone fisherman.

[Bank Bum]

.
2. I have caught thousands of wild fish.
4. By targeting wild fish you, whether you live and breathe by CandR of wild fish, are resulting in the decline of native fish by CandR mortality.  While the percentage is incredibly low, your "targeting" strategies have killed fish. Yep, they have.  what makes you better than the "law abiding" plunker that kills his one fish a year down at Barlows?  Seriously.....  Rationalize that one.


 

2. I have caught thousands of wild fish

4. By targeting wild fish you, whether you live and breathe by CandR of wild fish, are resulting in the decline of native fish by CandR mortality.  While the percentage is incredibly low, your "targeting" strategies have killed fish. Yep, they have.  what makes you better than the "law abiding" plunker that kills his one fish a year down at Barlows?  Seriously.....  Rationalize that one

You have totally lost me on what your getting at here,and you have caught THOUSANDS OF NATIVES?

[Bank Bum]

just relized that there was a post #3 in front of mine,but the person decided to delete it,to bad,made good sense....

[Big Buck]

  this one has got me confused..  i fish winters and summers, hatchery and native,  and yes i am better than a meathead, what ever that is supposed to mean  

[dardevle]

What cutts is getting at is....if you catch 1000 wild steelhead and release them at 10% mortality you have killed essentially 100 wild fish.  That would take one law abiding meathead 100 years of fishing to achieve, presently.

[chumdog]

I guess I'm bifishal, I like both.  

I love stomping out on the OP, it's a very spiritual deal for me.  I also get a big kick out of catching a fair share of hatchery fish on the local cricks where there aren't many fish.

If by meatheads you mean the guys I talked to a couple years ago on about June 3rd who told me, "You shoulda been here a couple weeks ago, it was killer," or the guy who yards a wild fish up on the beach, or better yet clubs it(As I saw on the Puyallup a few days before it closed) yup, you bet. 

If you mean a guy whose idea of what really floats his boat fishing wise is a little different than mine, nope, no better no worse.

[Bank Bum]

What cutts is getting at is....if you catch 1000 wild steelhead and release them at 10% mortality you have killed essentially 100 wild fish.  That would take one law abiding meathead 100 years of fishing to achieve, presently.

So,In the long & short of it all,WE are all Meatheads ?

[BigJim]

My idea is all those guys fishing for hatcheries can have those fish, am I going to go to elbow to elbow for those fish? No. I did it at reiter and walking up and seeing thirty guys and trying to slip in and ask somebody if its alright if I fish next to him knowing that he would rather I jump back in my rig although I am fishing no closer to him as he is to the next guy is not fun to me.

 Wild Steelhead mortality is known, and yes there is going to be some mistakes and mishaps but when Daredevle I think said 10% I think that may be a bit high for a seasoned steelheader. I don't consider myself a seasoned steelheader but I wouldn't say my handling is all that bad, I still learn as I learned I hate wool gloves for nates.(Which should be put somewhere on some website when it comes to proper CNR practices because those things suck up so much slime.) I am confident my fish that I wore gloves with will spawn and do just fine this year but I may be wrong to think he will be returning as a kelt. Who knows.

 I don't only fish nates, and wouldn't think anyone does. But I am sure not going to Terminal Zone elbow to elbow for some hatchery fish. Do I have a problem with hatcheries? Yes, I have always thought these things hurt wild fish when I first heard that they hurt wild fish, but I didn't understand why until recently.

 I am pretty sure the reason why, seeing as no one ever fully told me why these hatchery fish hurt the nates is well they spawn with nates and everyone knows that. This weekend we even found a buck doing so( he was quickly dispatched). But I think the real damage is a river can only support so many fish during a certain period of time, steelhead can't just say hey I need to get out of this river.... theres not enough food and hit the salt like pinks do right off the bat. They stick in the rivers, I have seen so many smolt chasing spoons and even hooked some and some of them were 12 inches. So if River X can support 3000 steelhead smolt throughout the year and there are 35000 native smolt possible and 15000 hatchery smolt released you have 50000 smolt fighting for 3000 spots, those 35000 natives could wreck shop and take over all the spots if they didnt have to compete with the brats but the brats are going to win some of those spots. And you(no one in particular) may think survival of the fittest but thats like dumping a bunch of brookies into the carbon the same time the nate smolts are rolling around and asking why there is less nates in two years. I am not for hatchery or nate I am for biodiversity and every time we lose another subspecies we all lose something.

 There is no more wild steelhead on multiple streams.
 No Summer chums left, maybe a run or two.
 I never heard of a summer Coho until this weekend. There is so many runs we have lost or are going to lose and one of the reasons for some of them are hatcheries. If they want to keep hatcheries open, at least broodstock with the native fish, let the brats come in early let people bonk them all. But the true nates need to be released. BC has a way better hatchery program then we do, we got Skamania all over the place. And if you want to talk about a failed hatchery program talk about the hatcheries that close to meet broodstock requirements, any program that needs to close for that needs to be shut down. And the Carbon River Hatchery Steelhead program is a complete joke. When 195000 are released and 3 return there is a huge problem with that stock( can't remember exact numbers but something like that.) Those Skamania fish are not Carbon worthy, the nates are full bodied monsters, big shoulders and brutish as can be. The Skamania is a trout compared to those fish. And no wonder why the nates do so much better, other than nets.... which probably have something to do with the crappy return for those hatchery fish but that river is a mean silty mess in the summer, I couldn't imagine a trout chilling in there it just doesn't seem possible but they do.

 Rant done.

[BigJim]

By the way, sorry if some of my post wasn't ace on with facts. But you get the point.

[Ironhead]

wild fish are found in wild places, brats at the terminal is not the same experience, why even try to compare.

This world needs its share of 4-10 trip meatheads so us every chance we get steelhead bums do not over populate the wild places

[cuttstosteelies]

Okay, let me clarify
I guess this post stems from another board on an older post in which a fella' began ripping someone for holding up a small "hatchery" steelhead.  Course other members of that board hopped on the back of the "ripper" and proceeded to get on their "wild fish" high horse.  How many pics of small wild fish do we see and the same size fish with an extra fin gets praise....  I will occasionally fish for wild fish.  I used to all the time.  I don't kill them so I don't necessarily like to fish for them.  I like to fish to kill fish.  You won't find me at terminal zones either (minus the ponds) and occasional trips to the Skookumchuck (lower in the river) and the Salmon but Reiter, Blue Creek.....  Forget about it.  I may venture there during this time of year when the crowds are down but at the peak of the brat season I won't go near them.  I can't even remember the last time in which I stood "shoulder/shoulder" with someone either.  Fishing for hatchery fish doesn't mean fishing at the deadline.
I love this board and several of the members here.  However, I still, for the life of me, don't understand what makes someone who walks 10 miles throughout the course of the day in pursuit of wild fish "better" than the weekend warrior that wants a fish for the barbecue.  It's just the mentality of a few folks that gets me fired up I guess.  Okay, like Bret Favre, that was a short retirement

[brewer]

cutts,  if i recall the time we met on the cowlitz was blue creek,  and almost shoulder to shoulder.

i am not one to ever post pics of any fish i catch, brat or wild.  generally i putt those who frequently do post pics are those who need attention. 

the absolute best fish pics are those that show zero clues to where the fish was caught.  say a bridge, barn or boat launch.  then i can do without the smug cheesy grins. 

i do trully dig,  are the underwater live shots that are popping up now.  wether brat or wild.

so yes i do fish wild fish,  love the catching wether i have to release it or not.

[cuttstosteelies]

Brewer, if I recall you were the only dude next to me   The beaver pond only holds a couple guys anyhow, doesn't it?

[Fast- eddy]

 Okay, like Bret Favre, that was a short retirement

Atta boy Cutts.............. Was hopping you would not fade away!